SP1 NLB Hub Transport

RMGreenley · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

SP1 now allows us to NLB the HT servers. Unfortunately, the documentation
doesn't do much more than state that fact. I haven't been able to find any
help on actually implementing NLB for the HT servers. Has anyone out there
been able to do it, or know how?

In my Exchange setup I have two CAS/HT servers. With RTM, I used NLB for
the CAS servers and not the HT servers, so that was already in place and
working when I installed SP1. I tried just enabling ports 25 and 465 to the
Port Rules, but I still can't connect to the NLB address. Any help would be
appreciated.

Also, before anyone writes about how I shouldn't need to NLB my HT servers
and posts quotes from the documentation about built-in resiliancy, keep in
mind that it doesn't work in all situations. We have scanners and internal
applications that send Emails via SMTP, and I'd like to have my high
availability configuration extend to those systems as well as Outlook.

Thanks!

Ray G.

Archived from group: microsoft>public>exchange>clustering

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...
> SP1 now allows us to NLB the HT servers. Unfortunately, the documentation
> doesn't do much more than state that fact. I haven't been able to find
> any
> help on actually implementing NLB for the HT servers. Has anyone out
> there
> been able to do it, or know how?

http://msmvps.com/blogs/clusterhelp/archive/2007/10/05/exchange-server-2007-hub-transport-and-client-access-service-on-the-same-nlb-cluster.aspx

Instead of setting affinity to none, you might want to set it to single.
Other than that, this should meet your needs.

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Mar 10- 13 in Denver
May 12-15 in New York

RMGreenley · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

Russ,

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to assume you also intended me to enable
TCP/UDP 25 and 465 rather than disable as suggested by the article (which was
written pre-SP1). If this is the case, then this is what I've already tried
and I still cannot connect to the NLB cluster on port 25.

Is setting those port rules all I really should need to do? There's no
configuration on Exchange itself (such as in the recieve connectors)?

Thanks again,

Ray G.

"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:

> "RMGreenley" wrote in message
> @microsoft.com...
> > SP1 now allows us to NLB the HT servers. Unfortunately, the documentation
> > doesn't do much more than state that fact. I haven't been able to find
> > any
> > help on actually implementing NLB for the HT servers. Has anyone out
> > there
> > been able to do it, or know how?
>
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/clusterhelp/archive/2007/10/05/exchange-server-2007-hub-transport-and-client-access-service-on-the-same-nlb-cluster.aspx
>
> Instead of setting affinity to none, you might want to set it to single.
> Other than that, this should meet your needs.
>
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
>
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> Mar 10- 13 in Denver
> May 12-15 in New York
>

RMGreenley · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

Any other thoughts out there on this topic? I still haven't been able to
come up with a working solution.

Thanks.

"RMGreenley" wrote:

> SP1 now allows us to NLB the HT servers. Unfortunately, the documentation
> doesn't do much more than state that fact. I haven't been able to find any
> help on actually implementing NLB for the HT servers. Has anyone out there
> been able to do it, or know how?
>
> In my Exchange setup I have two CAS/HT servers. With RTM, I used NLB for
> the CAS servers and not the HT servers, so that was already in place and
> working when I installed SP1. I tried just enabling ports 25 and 465 to the
> Port Rules, but I still can't connect to the NLB address. Any help would be
> appreciated.
>
> Also, before anyone writes about how I shouldn't need to NLB my HT servers
> and posts quotes from the documentation about built-in resiliancy, keep in
> mind that it doesn't work in all situations. We have scanners and internal
> applications that send Emails via SMTP, and I'd like to have my high
> availability configuration extend to those systems as well as Outlook.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ray G.

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...
> Any other thoughts out there on this topic? I still haven't been able to
> come up with a working solution.

Did you bother to read the blog that I linked for you? If you did, you would
see it covers exactly this issue and describes how to configure the
settings.

and yes, it works...

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Mar 10- 13 in Denver
May 12-15 in New York

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...
> Russ,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I'm going to assume you also intended me to enable
> TCP/UDP 25 and 465 rather than disable as suggested by the article (which
> was
> written pre-SP1). If this is the case, then this is what I've already
> tried
> and I still cannot connect to the NLB cluster on port 25.

I intended it exactly as written. It works as written and was tested, thus
why I sent affinity to none so I could verify that both nodes were being
properly utilized.

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Mar 10- 13 in Denver
May 12-15 in New York

RMGreenley · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

Russ,

Trust me, I read that blog a long time ago, and it was very helpful in
getting CAS load balanced without having HT load balanced before SP1.

However, it seems to me that you didn't understand what I was asking. Pre
SP1, it was not supported to load balance the HT server role. However, SP1
was supposed to include support for that. Your article specifically states:

"I then also tested to make sure the NLB cluster did not respond to SMTP,
which it didn't, and verified that each server did respond to SMTP as an
individual server name, which it did."

I DO want the NLB cluster to respond to SMTP. SP1 is supposed to support
that, and that's why I'm posting here. I can't get the NLB cluster to
respond to SMTP, and that's exactly what I need it to do.

Ray G.

"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:

> "RMGreenley" wrote in message
> @microsoft.com...
> > Any other thoughts out there on this topic? I still haven't been able to
> > come up with a working solution.
>
> Did you bother to read the blog that I linked for you? If you did, you would
> see it covers exactly this issue and describes how to configure the
> settings.
>
> and yes, it works...
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
>
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> Mar 10- 13 in Denver
> May 12-15 in New York
>

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...

> Trust me, I read that blog a long time ago, and it was very helpful in
> getting CAS load balanced without having HT load balanced before SP1.

Glad to hear that.

> However, it seems to me that you didn't understand what I was asking. Pre
> SP1, it was not supported to load balance the HT server role. However,
> SP1
> was supposed to include support for that. Your article specifically
> states:
>
> "I then also tested to make sure the NLB cluster did not respond to SMTP,
> which it didn't, and verified that each server did respond to SMTP as an
> individual server name, which it did."
>
> I DO want the NLB cluster to respond to SMTP. SP1 is supposed to support
> that, and that's why I'm posting here. I can't get the NLB cluster to
> respond to SMTP, and that's exactly what I need it to do.

You are right, I did misunderstand you. The answer is that the way that I
configured it is the way that it is supposed to work Post-SP1. You really
are not supposed to NLB the SMTP part. The configuration that I walked
through was not supported Pre-SP1, but it did work properly for what it is
supposed to do.

So, to re-iterate, as I understand it, NLB is configured to load balance the
CAS and provide it a single name space for the servers, but SMTP is not
supposed to be load balanced via NLB even Post-SP1.

Let's see if our good friend Scott Schnoll has anything to say on the
subject. I just pinged him.

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Sep 24 - 27 in Denver
Oct 8 - 11 in New York
Dec 10 - 13 in Denver
Jan 21 - 24 in New York

>
> Ray G.
>
> "Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> "RMGreenley" wrote in message
>> @microsoft.com...
>> > Any other thoughts out there on this topic? I still haven't been able
>> > to
>> > come up with a working solution.
>>
>> Did you bother to read the blog that I linked for you? If you did, you
>> would
>> see it covers exactly this issue and describes how to configure the
>> settings.
>>
>> and yes, it works...
>>
>> --
>> Russ Kaufmann
>> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
>> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
>> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
>> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
>>
>> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
>> Mar 10- 13 in Denver
>> May 12-15 in New York
>>

RMGreenley · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

Russ,

Thanks a lot for your help. Sorry I wasn't more clear in my initial post.

Here's some text from Microsoft Technet that leads me to believe that what
I'm looking for should be possible
(http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb124398.aspx):

"New in Exchange 2007 Service Pack 1
Exchange 2007 Service Pack 1 (SP1) supports the use of Network Load
Balancing (NLB) to achieve high availability for specific types of
connections to the Hub Transport server role. NLB can be used to provide high
availability in the following scenarios:

Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for POP and IMAP client
connections to the default Receive connector named "Client "
that is created only on Hub Transport servers.

Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for applications that submit
e-mail to the Exchange organization."

My situation falls into that second case, where I want to be able to load
balance inbound SMTP connections. With my limited NLB experience, the
article just doesn't give me enough to actually make this work, so more
specific help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

Ray G.

"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:

> "RMGreenley" wrote in message
> @microsoft.com...
>
> > Trust me, I read that blog a long time ago, and it was very helpful in
> > getting CAS load balanced without having HT load balanced before SP1.
>
> Glad to hear that.
>
> > However, it seems to me that you didn't understand what I was asking. Pre
> > SP1, it was not supported to load balance the HT server role. However,
> > SP1
> > was supposed to include support for that. Your article specifically
> > states:
> >
> > "I then also tested to make sure the NLB cluster did not respond to SMTP,
> > which it didn't, and verified that each server did respond to SMTP as an
> > individual server name, which it did."
> >
> > I DO want the NLB cluster to respond to SMTP. SP1 is supposed to support
> > that, and that's why I'm posting here. I can't get the NLB cluster to
> > respond to SMTP, and that's exactly what I need it to do.
>
> You are right, I did misunderstand you. The answer is that the way that I
> configured it is the way that it is supposed to work Post-SP1. You really
> are not supposed to NLB the SMTP part. The configuration that I walked
> through was not supported Pre-SP1, but it did work properly for what it is
> supposed to do.
>
> So, to re-iterate, as I understand it, NLB is configured to load balance the
> CAS and provide it a single name space for the servers, but SMTP is not
> supposed to be load balanced via NLB even Post-SP1.
>
> Let's see if our good friend Scott Schnoll has anything to say on the
> subject. I just pinged him.
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
>
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> Sep 24 - 27 in Denver
> Oct 8 - 11 in New York
> Dec 10 - 13 in Denver
> Jan 21 - 24 in New York
>
>
> >
> > Ray G.
> >
> > "Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> "RMGreenley" wrote in message
> >> @microsoft.com...
> >> > Any other thoughts out there on this topic? I still haven't been able
> >> > to
> >> > come up with a working solution.
> >>
> >> Did you bother to read the blog that I linked for you? If you did, you
> >> would
> >> see it covers exactly this issue and describes how to configure the
> >> settings.
> >>
> >> and yes, it works...
> >>
> >> --
> >> Russ Kaufmann
> >> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> >> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> >> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> >> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
> >>
> >> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> >> Mar 10- 13 in Denver
> >> May 12-15 in New York
> >>
>

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...
> Russ,
>
> Thanks a lot for your help. Sorry I wasn't more clear in my initial post.
>
> Here's some text from Microsoft Technet that leads me to believe that what
> I'm looking for should be possible
> (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb124398.aspx):
>
> "New in Exchange 2007 Service Pack 1
> Exchange 2007 Service Pack 1 (SP1) supports the use of Network Load
> Balancing (NLB) to achieve high availability for specific types of
> connections to the Hub Transport server role. NLB can be used to provide
> high
> availability in the following scenarios:
>
> Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for POP and IMAP client
> connections to the default Receive connector named "Client "
> that is created only on Hub Transport servers.
>
> Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for applications that submit
> e-mail to the Exchange organization."
>
> My situation falls into that second case, where I want to be able to load
> balance inbound SMTP connections. With my limited NLB experience, the
> article just doesn't give me enough to actually make this work, so more
> specific help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks again.

Thank you. I will try to get some time in the next week or so to do some
testing.

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Mar 10- 13 in Denver
May 12-15 in New York

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...
> Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for applications that submit
> e-mail to the Exchange organization."
>
> My situation falls into that second case, where I want to be able to load
> balance inbound SMTP connections. With my limited NLB experience, the
> article just doesn't give me enough to actually make this work, so more
> specific help would be greatly appreciated.

While we wait for more info, I do have a question for you. Are you talking
about internal inbound connections or connections from the Internet?

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Mar 10- 13 in Denver
May 12-15 in New York

RMGreenley · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

Russ,

These are internal connections only.

Thanks again.

Ray

"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:

> "RMGreenley" wrote in message
> @microsoft.com...
> > Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for applications that submit
> > e-mail to the Exchange organization."
> >
> > My situation falls into that second case, where I want to be able to load
> > balance inbound SMTP connections. With my limited NLB experience, the
> > article just doesn't give me enough to actually make this work, so more
> > specific help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> While we wait for more info, I do have a question for you. Are you talking
> about internal inbound connections or connections from the Internet?
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
>
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> Mar 10- 13 in Denver
> May 12-15 in New York
>

RMGreenley · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

Russ,

Good news! I had this question on the msexchange.org forum as well, and
Henrik Walther said that after doing some testing, he found that a key was to
change the NLB cluster type from Unicast to Multicast. I also had done some
modification of the Default receive connector Authentication settings
(unchecked Offer Basic authentication only after starting TLS) so I'm not
100% sure if the Unicast to Multicast change was the only factor. So I hope
I'm not stealing Henrik's thunder, but I wanted to let you guys know before
you put a lot of effort into finding a solution.

Thanks again,
Ray

"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:

> "RMGreenley" wrote in message
> @microsoft.com...
> > Russ,
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your help. Sorry I wasn't more clear in my initial post.
> >
> > Here's some text from Microsoft Technet that leads me to believe that what
> > I'm looking for should be possible
> > (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb124398.aspx):
> >
> > "New in Exchange 2007 Service Pack 1
> > Exchange 2007 Service Pack 1 (SP1) supports the use of Network Load
> > Balancing (NLB) to achieve high availability for specific types of
> > connections to the Hub Transport server role. NLB can be used to provide
> > high
> > availability in the following scenarios:
> >
> > Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for POP and IMAP client
> > connections to the default Receive connector named "Client "
> > that is created only on Hub Transport servers.
> >
> > Load balancing of inbound SMTP connections for applications that submit
> > e-mail to the Exchange organization."
> >
> > My situation falls into that second case, where I want to be able to load
> > balance inbound SMTP connections. With my limited NLB experience, the
> > article just doesn't give me enough to actually make this work, so more
> > specific help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks again.
>
> Thank you. I will try to get some time in the next week or so to do some
> testing.
>
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
>
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> Mar 10- 13 in Denver
> May 12-15 in New York
>

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...
> Russ,
>
> Good news! I had this question on the msexchange.org forum as well, and
> Henrik Walther said that after doing some testing, he found that a key was
> to
> change the NLB cluster type from Unicast to Multicast.

Unicast vs. Multicast is not the issue regarding using SMTP. The type used
is totally dependent on support of hardware and configuration of the NLB
cluster. Read here for more about the differences:
http://msmvps.com/blogs/clusterhelp/archive/2005/08/05/nlb-unicast-vs-multicast-original-posted-feb-21-2005.aspx

> I also had done some
> modification of the Default receive connector Authentication settings
> (unchecked Offer Basic authentication only after starting TLS) so I'm not
> 100% sure if the Unicast to Multicast change was the only factor. So I
> hope
> I'm not stealing Henrik's thunder, but I wanted to let you guys know
> before
> you put a lot of effort into finding a solution.

I am sure that the unicast v. multicast was not the issue. I do know that it
is fully possible to configure NLB to support SMTP and that it can be done
with HTs. The issue is the way that certificates are handled because HTs use
self signed certs for HT to HT communications. This goes back to the reason
why I asked if this was for an internal or an external access to the HT. If
it were external, the best way to get around all of the issues would be to
simply create mx records for both with the same priority/cost.

Either way, I hope your solutions works for you and passes all of your
testing.

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Mar 10- 13 in Denver
May 12-15 in New York

Russ Kaufmann [MVP] · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

"RMGreenley" wrote in message @microsoft.com...

> These are internal connections only.

Per Scott Schnoll,

"With SP1, we do now support load balancing of the client connectors (and
only these connectors) on Hub. See
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb124721.aspx, which states this.
See also, http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb124398.aspx."

He also says,

"We also now support load balancing CAS when it is co-located with Hub on
the same computers (He also clarified to me that it is support for both Pre
and Post-SP1). What we don’t support is using the NLB VIP address for
intra-Exchange communication (e.g., Hub to Hub), as Hub already has an
internal feature for load balancing Hub to Hub."

I hope this info from Scott helps you out. It certainly helped me.

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Mar 10- 13 in Denver
May 12-15 in New York

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